CO129-195 - Governor Hennessy - 1881 [1-4] — Page 334

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THE CIVIL SERVICE STORES.

A large deputation from co-operative societies, managed by civil servants of the Crown, and delegates from other such societies, not only from London but various part of the country, waited on Saturday upon Mr. Chamberlain, M.P President of the Board of Trade.

The deputation was introduced by Mr. LYULEH STANLEY, M.P., and the Minister was addressed by Mr. T. Hughan, Q.C.; Mr. Fleming, of the Civil Service Supply Association; Mr. Tatt, of the Sheeraess Co-operative Society, Mr. Gover, who was in charge of a memorial signed by 16,000 persons in favour of the stores; Mr. Abraham Greenwood, one of the original Rochdale Pioneers; and Mr. Lloyd Jones

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN, in reply, said-

It is a good thing to hear both sides of a question, and I am mach obliged to the gentlemen who have spoken. I am inuch obliged to you for coming here to-day to put your views of tho question before us in the light in which you consider they should be takon Listening to the speeches I have just heard, I could not help thinking that a wider interpretation has been given to some words of mine than I intended, and that I think they can fairly be said to bear. What is not in question is the principle of co-opera- tion-o far as I know that fins not been challenged. Even the Well, traders who came to me the other day professed to have no animesity whatever to that principio. (Dezialve laughter.) I accept their statement of their opinions, as I am prepared to accept yours representing your opinions. I any that the principle of co-operation is challenged by no one, whether it be in its general application or its particular prication, as we have seen in tha great Pioneer Society at Rochdale, and the other great societies in the northern and midland counties of England, which have done so much to promote habits of providence and thrift But there is very little analogy amongst the working classes.

which between societies which consial of artisans, and the Civil Service Supply and Household Supply Associations, are to all intents and purposes great trading undertakings, and nothing more or less. Even the principle of association is not at stake. No nue contends that any person, he he a civil servant or not, has not a perfect right to associate himself with co-operative societies or stores, and supply himself and his family, as a share holder or partner, with what they require. And so we come to what is the real question, whether it is desirable, in the interest of public service, that those great trading associations shall be actively managed by persude who are also in the public service? ng is that stated by Mr. Le

The principle which should all arree in, that no employar,

And

and which I suppose has any right to interfere with the consequently not the

Leisure accupations of its servants inlegs those infsure occupation Tarfare with the dee discharge of their duty in the public service. The application of that principle excludes artisans at the duck- yurds on weakly weges, postman and others, who all work under trict supervision, and who cannot be negligent without their negli gence coming under the cognisance of their employers. I do not think it has even been pretended or apprehended that any injury has been done to the public service by neglect of their & class of civil work by such people; but there 39

who hold oonidential positions, a few of whom servanta bave undertaken auxions, onerous, and important duties in connection with the snagement of vsat commercial undertakings. The question is whether the performance of those duties is cont patible with the due performance of their public duties. One of the apeakers reterred to the evidence taken before the Select Committee, but there was a good deal of evidence which showed that gentlemen in the employ of the Government recoired letters and communica- tions during their public hours with reference to the stores with which they were officially connected; and occasionally attended to the business of the stores, and bad interviews with persona in the Government hours. I entertain the opinion that the performance of those duties is not compatible with the public service. I do now think their trust has been abused, hut gentlemen in such a position ought to have no suspicion attached to them. Something has been said as to the opinions of former Ministers, but the late First Lord of the Admiralty arrived at the same opinion, and gave effect to it in the administration of his department. I am myself confirmed in that opinion, for having the opportunity of con- salile some of the most experienced permanent ethnials of the State, I find that they agree that this practice is not conducive on the whole to the public adrautage. These are the opinions which I thought myself justified in expressing to the previous deputation, and which Ihrankly again express to you. I hope I have speceeded in re moting some misapprehensions us to the scope of the propozođ action which I said I might suggest to the Government; and in reporting to my colleagues, with whom, of course, the ultiruste decision resta, the amazements made to me to-day I shall take care that the views of this deputation are fairly and fully placed before them.

In reply to one of the deputation, Mr. CHAMBERLAIN #aid he could not state whether or no the committee would be re- l'appointed.

18 JAN